[impdev] Time and place for All-Hands meeting about the future of the Imprudence / Kokua Team, Project and Viewers

[David Seikel]

I'm not a member of the team, but I do hope ZATZAi got my messages that
I want to be a team member.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:56:31 -0800 ZATZAi <zatzai at zatzai.com> wrote:

> 1. Irregardless of anything else do we as a team want to continue
> work and are there enough of us with enough time available to work on
> a viewer?
> 
> 	1a. If the answer is no, do we want to work on something
> else, such as a TPV code respository like Boroondas suggested?
> 
> 	1b. Assuming the the is yes, do we want to start fresh or
> continue on the old code base?

I would say yes, keep working on viewers.

Personally I see little value in chasing LL's tail lights, but that's
just me.  All the people that keep saying you can't add V3 features to
V1 viewers are just plain wrong, as it's being done already.  I even
had a working proof of concept mesh implementation in 2010.

The Imprudence team already has a great code base that has been in use
for some time, and people love it.  The next release is almost ready.
Starting fresh means much time spent playing catchup, and not so much
time innovating.

Starting fresh means pissing off a loyal user base that have been
hanging out for way too long for the next release.

> 2. Firestorm, how closely do we want to work with them, or even for
> them etc?

Ewww, no not work for them.  You should work with all TPV developers,
just as all of us have.

> 3. Git or Hg, let's pick one and stick with it, so which shall it be 
> (Git is familiar to many, but Hg is used by LL and it's easier to
> import LL patches to Hg)?

What about patches from non LL sources?

The github network tool has been invaluable for me to track what
Imprudence has been doing, and what the other forks of Imprudence have
been doing.  On the other hand, if Imprudence is dropped, then I'll
just keep working on my fork, so that wont matter so much to me.  I have
zero interest in chasing LL's tail lights.

> 4. Any new client will use the Kokua name, should the project name 
> change to Kokua as well or stay Imprudence?

Imprudence has the brand recognition.

> 5. Should a fresh start for the project mean a fresh start for the
> site as well? Perhaps an integration of the Blog and Forum using the
> new BBPress plugin. Do we want to stick with Media Wiki and Redmine
> or switch to something else? Further do we need to keep all the
> anscilliary sites like the Q&A site or focus on simplifying our web
> presence?

I would not bite off more than you can chew if team resources are
limited.  On the other hand, if there is a dedicated web team member,
then go for it.

> 6. What focus should the project take, features or stability? Second 
> Life first and foremost or OpenSim/Aurora?

Stability first, features second.  Phoenix / Firestorm is already doing
SL first and to hell with OS.  OS needs a popular viewer that caters
for them.

> 7. What should the first thing people see when they load up the
> viewer be? An explanation of the various alternative grids and how to
> access them (Many TPV users never connect to an OpenSim grid). The
> site blog, or a simple tutorial section on the blog? What about a
> grid picker, and should there be a default grid and thus it's landing
> page showing upon first launching the program (And changed to last
> used upon subsequent launchings)?

A grid picker.  A default grid means that you will forever be accused
of favouritism by the other grids.

And yes, change to the last used grid, or the users chosen default grid,
for later launchings.

> 8. What platforms do we want to support? There is no longer a Mac 
> developer, and 64 bit is becoming more mainstream. Should we support 
> Linux and Windows 32bit initially, or try to do 32bit and 64bit on
> some of the platforms?

Imprudence has a great reputation for being the 64 bit viewer.  Should
never loose that.  You should support 32 bit as well, as a large
percentage of users are stuck on ancient 32 bit hardware.

I did a survey to answer that exact same question the year before last,
and even 64 bit users wanted the choice between 64 and 32 bit.  Go
figure.

Definitely support Linux and Windows.  Try very hard to get at least
one Mac developer.

> 9. User statistics, are there any we can get from LL? If not can we 
> create an opt-in within the client for sending hardware stats such as 
> CPU, RAM, OS etc? Would this help us in better developing the client
> for our audience?

Opt in is good.  Also include if 64 bit users are using the 32 bit
version.

> 10. Future weekly meetings, do we wish to reschedule them or is 
> Wednesday's at 20:00 working out for everyone?

I have no schedule, so generally any time would be fine for me.  I
probably wont attend meetings though unless I'm made a team member.

> 11. How do we inform the public about what we have decided here today?

Blog.

One question I want to add - if you go ahead with Imprudence, is the
feature freeze over already?  I ask coz we missed out on getting OTR
into Impy due to missing the deadline for the feature freeze.  OTR was
not ready at the time.  But I have noticed that new features made it
into Impy later anyway.  So, is it over, can I send an OTR patch?


One of my goals with my fork of Imprudence is to slowly but surely
remove LL code and replace it with something sane.  I'm happy to share
my work with Imprudence, or any other viewer.  There are in fact some
patches of mine stuck in the Imprudence bug tracker that have been
waiting for ages to go through.  Some of what I do wont be suitable for
Imprudence, or any other viewer.  Some of it will be.  I have more
stuff that I can send to Imprudence, or just put it in myself if you
make me a team member.

Constantly playing catch up with LL's code base means less time for
doing your own thing.  Better off diverging, and implementing similar
features the right way, than just implementing things the same way LL
does.  After all, LL's only concern is to be more profitable than they
were last quarter.  They have zero interest in making virtual worlds
better for everyone.  That's the main thing that took LL meshes sooo
long for them to do.  They spent a very long time fine tuning the
business model for meshes.  We can do much better than that.

LL's business is not my business, it should not be yours either.
Making the best viewer you can should be your business, and chasing
LL's tail lights will hamper that effort.

-- 
A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants
coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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